Feedback

[Matt]

Feeding back isn't hard.

Feeling like you have to feedback on a literal novel every couple of weeks is.

It's clear a lot of people aren't reading the full shows in full. So what is the point in the shows existing? The point of the shows are that they are the pinnacle of the writing happening each fortnight. Honestly, I think you'd get better and more consistent feedback if the shows were 10-15k than you ever will when they're hitting 71k.

I know a lot of people might moan, but if the feedback issue continues, you should consider halving (or at least significantly decreasing) the amount of segments on each show, and imposing word limits on them so that shows don't spiral out of control. If that means people have to be more creative in pushing their stories forward then it will be a good challenge. You've got examples of people in this thread admitting they have only read segments that relate to them, their characters, or their storylines. That is not a good look on a handler or a fed.

And for anyone who says that feedback shouldn't be mandatory - what are you here for? If you don't want to give and receive feedback, if you don't read the results each show, why are you efedding? You may as well write a novel for your character instead. The whole point of efedding is the community aspect. If you're not putting back in to the community then do you even want to be part of the community?

I realise you may not care at all about my viewpoint because I'm not even writing here, but all of this is part of the reason I'm not writing here. The shows are too long, there's not enough people giving solid feedback, and there are too many people using it as a way to write whatever they want then step back from any sort of community or responsibility aspects.

Keegan and sc00t know that where I currently rp, there is an expectation on you when you sign up that you don't just write and leave, that you put something in, and that's either in matchwriting, creative, or donations for new stuff for the fed (we use posers over there, so the donations go towards new character models etc.). What that means is that everyone there is invested, and the feedback each week is useful feedback. I actually don't like the method a lot of people use here of writing a couple of sentences on each segment - using the short form provided gives you room to explore specific storylines you like in more detail, and if your storyline is not regularly in that feedback then thats feedback enough that you need to push harder to make your storyline pop.

I know a lot of you are the old school fedders where none of this mattered, but honestly we're not in the golden age of efedding anymore, and the feds that survive in this day and age are the ones where everyone chips in and pulls together, feedback included. The one I'm in has been going 8 years now. I've been there for over 5 of them. People stay for a reason and they stay because there is a solid foundation rooted in the community of everyone knowing how hard everyone else is working both in promos, matches, segments, behind the scenes etc. If you want GLOBAL to have that kind of longevity, you have to be willing to put in more than just your segments/matches each week.

Anyway. Ramblings over. Peace.

[Jerry David]

Fucking 11/10 Matthew. Thanks very much mate.

[Alex Reyn]

As someone who hasn't given as much feedback as I SHOULD have, if that were all directed at me, I'd take it on the chin. I'd say it's fair, and he has a point.

The problem is, it's NOT only directed at me. And as much sense as it may make from a certain perspective, it is ultimately a strawman. You've constructed an idea in your head of the person not giving feedback, and are judging them for the words you put in their mouth. There is a lot more nuance going on here than just: "All these people are lazy."

Some, like Master Sisters, are struggling to read the show.

Others, at least one person I know, genuinely struggles with feedback, because he is actually uncomfortable with sharing his opinions. On ANYTHING. Not just Wrestling.

Also, while we can try to pretend it's not there, there IS a feeling of pressure for people to match the big threads that Brian, Chris, Keegan, Scott and Pedro make. I know that when I read a show all the way through, I would not be happy with myself if I only wrote the shorthand feedback.

Now. Here's one thing I 100% agree on.

Honestly, I think you'd get better and more consistent feedback if the shows were 10-15k than you ever will when they're hitting 71k.

I know a lot of people might moan, but if the feedback issue continues, you should consider halving (or at least significantly decreasing) the amount of segments on each show, and imposing word limits on them so that shows don't spiral out of control. If that means people have to be more creative in pushing their stories forward then it will be a good challenge

Not only would 15k be closer to the hour long show that Keegan initially wanted for GLOBAL, but I'd rather have a tightly focused show than an everything in the kitchen sink show.

In my opinion. With SOME exceptions, the biggest issue is not writing feedback, but people reading the full shows.

Now, there may be a sentiment of

"Well, if I can do it, THEY should be able to!"

But that isn't really helpful since.. you aren't them, they aren't you. Maybe in that circumstance it would help more to figure out WHY it is harder for them. Let's find solutions instead of reasons to judge.

Before I leave off, I do want to say that for my money, we are actually in a GREAT place re: feedback. Could it be better? Absolutely. SHOUL D it be better? I'd like it to be.

But I was in NBW in 2018, and we'd have KILLED to have five people leaving consistent, detailed feedback every week.

[Alex Reyn]

...We'd also have killed to have a SHOW every week.

...Or every month.

...Or every four months.

But that's besides the point.

[pdbnb]

Well said, Shae. While I am now a feedback fiend, those who were in SCW know I would do the bare minimum there. And before THAT, I was largely an 'arrive-drop-leave' kind of person, with some notable exceptions (hi, VoW!)

But, yes, I would have been kicked out of 98% of all my previous feds and/or would have had to kick out 75% of my rosters in BOTH my feds if feedback was a mandatory 'do it or you're out' type scenario.

[THEHopper]

I don't think Keegan nor myself ever advocated for "feedback or your gone"

We both think it is part of a good fed, for sure.

Far as comparing us to OSW....there are some very different things going on. We are not weekly (though if we shortened everything to 15 k or less for shows it could be weekly and probably still not get feedback aplenty). Are you sure the feedback there is truly honest or kissing up to the fed head?

Just random thoughts.

Are the shows too long? perhaps

I agree we are far from the e-wrestling heyday, but I also know that if we imposed strict word limits, some people would not be happy with that nor read the shows anyway.

But I like that this thread is making people think about it all. That is a good thing

[Matt]

Far as comparing us to OSW....there are some very different things going on. We are not weekly (though if we shortened everything to 15 k or less for shows it could be weekly and probably still not get feedback aplenty). Are you sure the feedback there is truly honest or kissing up to the fed head?

Yes. Handlers don’t know who is writing their story until the end of an arc. There is a 6 or 7 person creative team, only one of whom is the fedhead. Can’t kiss up to the fedhead if you don’t know who is writing what.

Are the shows too long? perhaps

You have multiple people saying they don’t read the shows because they’re too long. Ain’t no perhaps about it.

I agree we are far from the e-wrestling heyday, but I also know that if we imposed strict word limits, some people would not be happy with that nor read the shows anyway.

I’m not suggesting you give a 100 word limit and sack everyone who goes one word over or under. 4 segments between each match is overkill. Some of those segments and matches often reach the multiples of thousands of words. Having 2 segments between each match and setting a soft limit of 1k would only help tighten up peoples writing. And before you ask OSW has a 250-350 standard seg length aside from the big ppv twists, so I’m not suggesting you just turn into OSW. Though if you want to rebrand as a 500 word promo microfed I’m not going to stop you…

[Jerry David]

I think he’s got you on every point there Chris.

I think there a discussion to be had on sliding word counts. ie match 1 - 500-1000 words, main event 2-3000 words etc. (made up the numbers obviously) to give show length consistency and if I can speak honestly, cut out every bullshit excuse people have made in this thread to not give feedback.

I think not giving feedback is rude, disrespectful and lazy.

I work 2 jobs, have 2 kids, a wife to be, a house to look after a dog to walk 3 wanks a day to have, etc but I’m still running 3 angles and giving feedback. I honestly don’t care for an unemployed, self entitled layabout saying “if I can’t give feedback to everyone I can’t give feedback” - try harder.

That’s just my opinion, and seeing as everyone already thinks I’m rude, I might as well just own it.

If you don’t like this post, DM me about it. I’m not hard to find.

[pdbnb]

Do you know they're unemployed though?

[Jerry David]

You’ve really nailed the crux of my point there pedro.